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8th Nov 2017, 8:00 AM in Chunin Exam Arc
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RandomRex6 8th Nov 2017, 8:00 AM edit delete
It's fun to watch your players/GM squirm. All in all, schadenfreude.

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Kitty 8th Nov 2017, 9:58 AM edit delete reply
this is the part in the anime that always frustrates me a little bit, let me rant.

So, at this point in time, Sakura and Ino should both be about a month into genin training, but because of reasons they are weak little shits.

Sakura is on a team with two powerhouse boys so she floats along in the background, and no one does anything about it cause A, Kakashi is a shitty sensei who only cares about nuturing the boys potential and B, Sakura up until this point has only done what she has been told to do and never bothered to do more on her own accord.

Ino on her side has clearly learned a few family jutsu's, and while I am not going to bash Asuma, I think maybe he has done a little too much focus on teambuilding while maybe he should have seen that Ino needed some follow up in the strenght department when it came to occations such as this when she was alone

Now, lets fast forward to Shippuden times. Sakura has been training under Tsunade, and Ino is a friggin master of certain types of genjutsu, I mean, Sakura took down a friggin Akatsuki member by herself.

Now think about this. If Ino and Sakura had gotten proper training from the start... if someone had noticed Sakura's insane chakra control or Ino's ability to always move with the flow, how friggin great could this battle have been?

BUT NO, because they are labeled as shrieking fangirls without much of a personality, we get this slugfest instead
Godzfirefly 8th Nov 2017, 10:13 AM edit delete reply
I don't completely disagree with your premise, but there are a few points that feel not-quite-accurate.

For instance, Kakashi is teaching a 'class' of three students. Whenever you teach a class, you always teach a topic until the entire class demonstrates understanding. Kakashi did that repeatedly. Every time he taught a subject in the show up to that point though (ignoring the bell lesson,) Sakura just already knew the lesson or was good enough to get it the first time. For instance, the show spends an entire episode raising tension over Sasuke and Naruto learning to walk up trees and dangle upside down as though it's super hard and important...even though Sakura just knew it already.

So, it isn't so much that Kakashi was a terrible teacher...it was just that he had two terrible students that didn't know the basics of chakra control and instead had skipped ahead to learn complex stuff without understanding how it worked. So, Sakura had to suffer by sitting through the remedial classes on chakra control while her fellow students caught up instead of learning techniques that would have been useful elsewhere. (Could Kakashi have split his attention and taught two different topics at once? Probably not without confusing Naruto, hurting the pride of Sasuke, and sacrificing quality in what he taught Sakura.)

The reason this Sakura and Ino battle is the way it is has more to do with the nature of the Japanese character tropes they represent...but that's meta-discussion instead of in-universe discussion, I suppose.
Talentless 8th Nov 2017, 4:06 PM edit delete reply
https://forums.spacebattles.com/threads/the-naruto-reread-thread.358836/

Threadmarks 71-73 cover the Ino vs Sakura fight.

Also, if you have the time because reading it through is a bit of a time sink, it gives excellent analysis of all the fights in the Arc.

Ino and Sakura are NOT weak for Genin shinobi, they just happen to be in the same generation/timeframe as Naruto, Sasuke, and Rock Lee, who all set the bar ridiculously high for the Chuunin exam arc in different ways.

Naruto has Shonen Heroe syndrome and visibly grows in skill and power throughout this Arc.

Sasuke meets those similar in age to himself, and better at things than he currently is and so he forces himself to work harder and grows just as fast as Naruto.

Rock Lee only has Taijutsu, and he polished it to an extreme, nothing surpasses his Extreme Lotus in pure physical combat until the Valley of the End fight.

Also as a side note, Look up the threadmark "Kakashi is an excellent teacher. It analyzes all three of Team 7 in the Chuunin Exam arc and does a good job of it.

Also, all the lessons Kakashi taught Team 7 stuck around. To the point that Three years later, when they finally reunite as a team with all four of them in the 4th Great Shinobi War, they ALL fall into line with excellent teamwork, even when they are loads stronger and don't quite know each others tricks. That takes some serious teaching chops.

TrueMetis 9th Nov 2017, 8:53 PM edit delete reply
"Whenever you teach a class, you always teach a topic until the entire class demonstrates understanding. Kakashi did that repeatedly. "

That's because you can't tailor you teaching to the individuals. That's not an issue when your teaching only three students. If your teaching three student teaching them as the individual learns is exactly what you want to do, it's the reason to have a small group. If they're just going to wait until everyone is at the same point then they should have kept them at the academy.

" So, Sakura had to suffer by sitting through the remedial classes on chakra control while her fellow students caught up instead of learning techniques that would have been useful elsewhere. (Could Kakashi have split his attention and taught two different topics at once? Probably not without confusing Naruto, hurting the pride of Sasuke, and sacrificing quality in what he taught Sakura.)"

What attention splitting? He showed them how to do it once waited a bit then he left. He wasn't sitting their critiquing them and helping them get better. He gave a basic explanation and demonstrated it once, Naruto gets more advice from Sakura not Kakashi, and after that Sakura does nothing "guarding" Tazuna.

And if in doing so he hurt Sasuke's pride so what? The kids expected to kill, if he can't deal with other people being taught other things than he shouldn't be a ninja at all. Beside Kakashi steps on exactly that to make Sasuke work harder "Sakura did it really fast, guess the Uchiha aren't actually worth shit".(not confusing Naruto could have been fixed by teaching Sakura elsewhere, like I said he didn't exactly pay a lot of attention to what Sasuke and Naruto were doing)

"Ino and Sakura are NOT weak for Genin shinobi, they just happen to be in the same generation/timeframe as Naruto, Sasuke, and Rock Lee, who all set the bar ridiculously high for the Chuunin exam arc in different ways."

It was hardly just Naruto, Lee, and Sasuke who blew past them. Everyone else who made it into the next stage, and plenty who didn't, would have destroyed them in seconds. Honestly give me someone aside from a nameless mook you'd expect Sakura or Ino to be able to beat at that point?
Guest 8th Nov 2017, 6:24 PM edit delete reply
Another point is that Sakura is actually shown to have been quite diligent in working on training herself. Not only did she work hard to be top of the class on the academic side (excepting Sasuke, of course), and improve her chakra control to the point where she could just do the tree walk the moment Kakashi showed them how, but Kakashi straight up says he is glad he taught her Genjutsu when she cancels the sleep spell on herself. By teaching Genjutsu, he means using a Genjutsu on her, once, in their first training session. Sakura was the one who went home and learned how to break illusions so that didn't happen again.

The problem with Sakura isn't that she wasn't doing things of her own accord, but she just needed more time to develop her techniques and fighting style to the point where they would be useful in battle. And Ino was doing fine, actually, until Sakura was able to counter her mind control, which was probably the first time that had ever happened to her. Once her primary technique failed she only had Taijutsu to fall back on, and she and Sakura are about equal in that regard.

The main problem with this fight is that it didn't inform the actual development of the characters and their fighting styles once they were older. Sakura just became a direct clone of Tsunade, and that secondary internal Sakura never became relevant again; while Ino just got whatever powers were convenient to the plot at the time.
animalia 8th Nov 2017, 12:48 PM edit delete reply
animalia
Godzfirefly has a point.
Foolish 8th Nov 2017, 9:48 PM edit delete reply
In the series Sakura barely did jack up to this point, so at least to me, the culmination of Sakura v Ino is a very frustrating watch and it's like "wake me when it's over"

Yes, I hear what Godzfirefly and Talentless is saying, fine, Sakura isn't a bad ninja. However based on what her two other members were doing, the girl needed something more to at least stand out, and she had jack: Not even a family jutsu, at least Ino had that. Kakashi even said she was suited to genjutsu, why wasn't that better developed?
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